(Almost) everything you'll ever need to know on modes and scales!

Very nice and useful threat!

Cheers!

That musta took you a while to put together :O

x

Stryfer wrote:The answer would be: No. Victor Wooten does this thing on a bass workshop DVD where he plays all the "wrong" notes of a chord while soloing, but it still sounds good.
Again, this may not be valid for all types of music, but a rule of thumb is that if you start and end on a note that's part of the chord, you can play anything you want in between and it won't sound off.

If the entire world hates what you play then you have much of an audiance

I think the point Victor was making was that so long as the groove fits don't worry if you stray out of key, not its ok to play completely off key. In that example he played a pentatonic scale using the five notes that are not in the key of the song he was jamming over, but still grooved with it, then he jammed using the correct pentatonic and made a mess of the groove on purpose. What happens to most musicians is when they find themselves playing out of key they stumble around until they get back in key, and its that mistake the audience hears first and not the player being off key. If you hit a 'wrong' note, move to the left or the right of it and make it sound right. I think what Victor was trying to teach was to feel comfortable outside the musical key so it would not impact your playing. I dont think he was making the point that we should just stay out of key while soloing or supporting a band. You could really put someone off their playing if you decide to play your bassline in a different key.

I know Pastichio
Don't take that advice so literally that you SHOULD play off-key.
Here's how I understand it: if playing entirely off-key can sound OK, then accidently missing a note won't be a problem...as long as you stay in the groove of course.

Like I said, if you start and end on a correct note, then what's in between doesn't really matter. Hence the chromatic scale.

I hope no one misunderstands the idea, though...
My posts are already too long and if I strive to explain everything they will double in length

EDIT: To sum up both our posts - I think Wooten was making a point that bass players worry too much about notes, when they should really focus on the groove. Am I close?

QUESTION FOR PASTICHIO: Since you are the resident pro as far as modes, scales and theory go... Do you ever feel like it doesn't really matter which mode you're playing as long as you're in key? Then again, do you feel like it doesn't really matter what notes you play beacuse of the chromatic scale? I'm not talking about creativity, just theory.

I wouldn't consider myself a pro, I have knowledge in the subject which gets me by but I'm far from an expert. As to your question, it really does depend on whats going on in the song. For example we have a song where there is a four part guitar harmony, my bass playing takes a lead role during this section. First I play a variation of the main riff of the song then move into an arpeggiated chord progression based on the guitar harmonies, which also changes the key of the song from major to minor. The guitar parts remain the same but their quality changes, if you get me. Then I change back to the minor still using arpeggiated chords, just a different progression. I then have a bass noodle bit using the scale modes as if they were chords, changing when the harmony part changes. This was all thought out an planned based on theory, if I strayed away from it wouldn't have worked out the same way I think. Now on a different song, which is more classic rock kind of thing, there I use chromatic runs during the chorus all the time, it feels right for that type of song so its what I stick to. I even tried to be more theoretical with my approach and just went back to the old way cause it fit and had a better flow. Using chormatics is great when it works within a song, but with some of the songs we do I tend to stick to diatonic scales as it works with our music.

Even though I know all this stuff, I've only got one rule:
If it sounds good, it's good.

I have a little song on piano that has got a F#, F, E, D left hand progression (one bar each, half notes), along with a blues/minor improv in the right hand...
Theoretically, that wouldn't be weird. Thing is, it's a G minor/blues improv.

Now I get it: you use the theory to plan out everything

I just jam and when I strike a good groove I stick with it. When it comes to variations, I play around with lots of patterns. I don't really know or think about what the pattern is, I just kind of know it will sound ok... Can't explain it.

Don't get me wrong, its not like I plan everything I play out. Some of my playing is based on jamming things out. But for that particular piece I wrote the guitar harmonies and then wrote a bass performance based on it. I didn't even use my bass while writing it all, just a pen and paper. After I'd finished I learned how to play it. We have another piece that has a Bach style middle section, I wrote that while watching TV with a pen and paper, I could hear the way it worked in my head and had the theory to be able to write it all down. Then I had to learn how to play it lol.

Yea, I get it. It's kind of opposite to what I do.
I come up with lots of cool grooves as we jam, then I listen to the recordings and use theory to try and figure out what it was that I played. Theory is actually something I use for communication within the band. although I don't go farther than major/minor, second, third... quarter not, eitght note... and so on. Just the very basics, since modes are something that only schooled musicians or bass players understand XD
I would love to see the look on my guitarists face if I told him: "Ah, and then I switch to the dorian mode and..." XD

Then again, we play alternative rock, so there's not much complexity in it. It seems that I just dabble in a genre that demands a lot of theory, so that's probably why I don't get it

Thats cool, some of my best ideas come out of just jamming stuff out with the band. There is a lot of improve on what I do anyways, except where I already stated about certain parts of songs where its supporting harmony parts. I just layed down my bass for a song we are doing for our EP last night, I did it in one take and it is completely improvised and I probably wont play it the same way again. Worked out well and Im leaving it the way it is no changes. We are a metal band, and we kind of shift between genres and I adapt my playing to suite what we are doing at the time. So you and I really don't work that differently at all.