Months of questions bundled into one post.

This is going to be a very long post, when writing it I felt like I had to explain everything or else you may misinterpret what I'm asking or saying etc.


How do I progress as a bass player? I've been playing for about 15 months now. I usually play everyday, although I've been neglecting it recently. In that 15 months all I've really done is learn a few riffs and songs, I don't really feel like I'm a "bass player". Sure, I can play a few cool riffs, and some songs that seemed impossible when I first picked up a bass, but I don't feel like I really know anything. I certainly don't feel comfortable improvising or attempting to write anything original. I try but, nothing happens. I've only ever had 2 bass lessons, I didn't even attempt to get into music class at college because I just felt like I wasn't good enough, I eventually dropped out of college and I've been thinking of maybe going back and doing Music and Music Tech just because I really like music and I haven't got a job so it'll keep me occupied, but I'm afraid of going and being surrounded by a load of great musicians who are super confident and whip out some awesome Vic Wooten stuff on bass or Tool songs on drums and I'd be sat there playing Hysteria or something to myself in the corner.


Is bass the right instrument for me? I'm not really relying on people's replies for this question, because I feel like it's an answer that has to come from me, but advice is always helpful. I got really into music just before I picked up the bass, before that I wasn't interested too much. I first really got into it after speaking to one of my really old friends who I remembered plays guitar, and he shown me a YouTube video of Knights of Cydonia by Muse and I really fell in love with it. I became a Muse fanboy and developed a man-crush for them (not literally), although at the moment I'm becoming disillusioned with them, I just wish they would be more like the Muse that came out with Origin of Symmetry and Dead Star. Muse really introduced me to so many great bands and it was like a domino effect, I listened to one band and a whole lot more opened up, eg Radiohead, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Incubus, Rage Against The Machine, Tool, SOAD and so on, I could go on forever. Anyway, after getting into all these great bands I wanted to learn an instrument so I could be more like my new idols. I knew an insane amount of guitarists, so I thought I'd do something just a little different and it was a toss-up between drums and bass guitar. I picked bass because my mum wouldn't let me have an acoustic drum kit ( ),and electric kits are damn expensive and to me it feels like they're a toy compared to acoustic kits. So I chose bass, and here I am 15 months later. I hear and read a lot of musicians saying that their respective instruments are like another voice, they use it to express themselves. It sounds cheesy but what I'm saying is I can't find my voice. I don't feel like I'm expressing myself, I'm just playing along to some of my favourite songs. I don't really have a clue if any other instruments are the key to my voice, so to speak. I've always thought that I'd make a great drummer, when I listen to music I'm always tapping along and I feel like I'm listening to the drums and not the music, I've probably watched more drum related interviews and videos etc than bass. Tool have also become my favourite band because of Danny Carey, that man is a genius. I've only ever played on a drumkit twice. Once in a music room at school just because it made a lot of noise and once in a music shop. There was no sudden epiphany or beam of light shining down on the kit, God didn't speak to me and tell me that this is my instrument, but I did think it was pretty fun. I've played a guitar once also, I borrowed my friends for a week, realised I couldn't instantly play any Muse songs and gave it him back. Guitar doesn't really appeal to me really, I hate shredding and solos that are really drawn out and all over the place. What do you suggest I do? Plough on with bass and eventually it will come to me, or maybe start looking into other instruments and take a drum lesson or two to try it out some more?


There may be a few things I haven't explained properly or anything but I've tried my hardest to give you the full picture on where I'm at and how I feel about it. If you read the whole post then thank you, and a reply would be greatly appreciated.

I've been playing about exactly as long as you and judging by your statement of "I'd be sitting there playing Hysteria or something to myself in the corner" it seems we are about at the same level.

The only difference between me and you here is that I've joined a band. (Actually, I was kinda forced into it ) Playing with other musicians will help you get your feel for the music and be able to express yourself. Even if you don't think you can make up stuff, you can, in fact, anyone can, you just gotta be creative. You also have to be confident in your playing at almost all times. So my suggestion would be for you to find other musicians at your level (or slightly better) to play with. If you have absolutely no clue what to do with them, they will usually help you out. Plus, everyone always wants a bassist.


Oh yeah, welcome!

It seems to me that your main problem is that you don't 'feel' your improvisation. You have to fiddle around and see what works for you. Find an interval you like (I love minor thirds) and play around with that. Since seem to like Muse a lot, I'd say: play around with root-minor 3rd-5th patterns. Maybe add some octaves, play around for a bit. You know, the thing with improv is that you can't learn it unless you do it.

I play piano and write my own songs. About half of those songs are improvisation in the right hand. Consequently, I can whip up a riff or melody very quickly, but I didn't get here at once. I've been sharpening my improv skills for over 2 years and I'm still not done. There's always some new combination to use in improvisation. That's how I improvise, with what I call 'microriffs'. Those are small combinations of two, three, maybe four notes which I just string together, like triplets of Bb-C-Eb and F-Eb-C. It sounds pretty good now, but at first, it sounded not quite how I liked it, but I just kept on making microriffs. For instance, when playing in a blues scale (I'm still talking piano here), I have about 5-6 microriffs. Very nearly everything I play is just those strung together and, you know what? I think it sounds awesome. I really connect with it. They are so ingrained in my muscle memory that I can space off somewhere and still play an improvisation. I can enjoy the music I play without having to worry about playing it right. I think that's what you're looking for.
So, I suggest you play around for a bit, find some microriffs you like and then build from there. Good luck!

I also play for 15 months or so, everyday, I study my chords and arpeggios, also doing my excersises EVERY motherfrakking day, and I also can't impro.

I play many songs from easy->intermediate, but bro, you can't impro if you havent studied how to do it.

Be patient. Really! It will come a time that everything with patience and right practice will find their way.

I just started mixing chords and scales for fun.

I also use a drum machine, which helps a lot on learning impro.

Also, the diffirence is, that I DO feel a bassist.

A baby bassist, but everyday I am eager to touch it caress it and get new things out of it.

Why are you so rushed?

Cheers mate, don't quit on bass. We 're here to help!

Welcome!








PS: I CANT EVEN SLAP AND POP yet. That's all. I 've let it for now because I don't own it yet. Make a schedule and go on top one step at a time. See what you can learn easily, and what you can't learn easily and put them in a row! Have you tried it?

In reply to Nocturnal Pulse, I'd just like that add that I only know a handful of songs (I can play like three for you right now, the others I'd have to listen to) on bass, yet I can improvise alright. I think this is because I only learn a song when I really think the bassline is creative and the song sounds great. For the rest, I do improv, improv, improv. I haven't really gone beyond the pentatonic scales with fingerstyle, but I keep on finding microriffs and rhythms for just general slap and pop.

It's a similar story here. I can think of... 5 or 6 songs I could play all the way through right this instant with no troubles, no going "so what do I play here again?". I just sit down and improv. I can't improv fills properly yet though, they always sound a bit lame I can get the timing right, but the notes I choose always end up sounding a bit wrong. I kinda try to imagine which chords would be playing at a certain time and make basslines over them. I like playing on the offbeat a lot as well. Probably just reggae affecting my mind

And all I really know theory-wise is most of what's been posted in the scales and modes thread. I don't actually know what an interval is exactly. Is it a name for a note or combination of notes in a scale? I dunno.

The interval is the distance between notes, very generic but something like that!

I must agree with both of you that if a line is not creative enough there is no point in learning a '
'
E- 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-5.

'
The foundation of impro, for me as a player that cannot yet improvise easily to not-at-all, is to know by heart the sound of your bass, to get your brain (because the brain knows the notes on your fretboard) to send the notes to your hands.

If you dont wanna get in the drill of scales, and modes, all you have to do is to learn your fretboard BY HEART. my opinion!

15 months isn't really a long time when it comes to mastering an instrument. These things take time and yes it is frustrating but if you want it bad enough it will come. A friend of mine wanted to play drums for years, he finally got a drum kit around five years ago and I honestly think he expected to sit down and just start playing like John Bonham. He got frustrated early on and he gave up, the kit is sitting in his spare room now unused, I wonder how good he could of become if he had of kept at it all these years later. I'm not trying to suggest that you are like my friend, you lasted 15 months, he barely made it a month. But like him you are getting frustrated with your progress, learning a musical instrument is a pain stacking experience but with great rewards. My only advice to you is to stop learning songs, like ThreeLetterSyndrome I can probably play a handful of songs and I have been playing bass for years. Yea its great to be able to play songs you like but I think with a lot of people who learn to play an instrument they treat it like the beginning and end of their learning experience. Spend more time on learning scales, scales are very important, at first I know they are boring as hell and it is hard and frustrating to discipline yourself to stick to it. But once you know them well enough and how to use them it will really open up your playing skills and most importantly your improvisation skills. When you see a bassist who seems to be all over the neck with their playing and you are wondering 'wow how did they do that?', I bet you they know their scales inside out.

Pastichio wrote:15 months isn't really a long time when it comes to mastering an instrument. These things take time and yes it is frustrating but if you want it bad enough it will come. A friend of mine wanted to play drums for years, he finally got a drum kit around five years ago and I honestly think he expected to sit down and just start playing like John Bonham. He got frustrated early on and he gave up, the kit is sitting in his spare room now unused, I wonder how good he could of become if he had of kept at it all these years later. I'm not trying to suggest that you are like my friend, you lasted 15 months, he barely made it a month. But like him you are getting frustrated with your progress, learning a musical instrument is a pain stacking experience but with great rewards. My only advice to you is to stop learning songs, like ThreeLetterSyndrome I can probably play a handful of songs and I have been playing bass for years. Yea its great to be able to play songs you like but I think with a lot of people who learn to play an instrument they treat it like the beginning and end of their learning experience. Spend more time on learning scales, scales are very important, at first I know they are boring as hell and it is hard and frustrating to discipline yourself to stick to it. But once you know them well enough and how to use them it will really open up your playing skills and most importantly your improvisation skills. When you see a bassist who seems to be all over the neck with their playing and you are wondering 'wow how did they do that?', I bet you they know their scales inside out.

Nuff said. +1

Sorry, I've been pretty neglectant of this topic. Not had much time to reply.

I've learned a fair few scales, no one has ever told me why I should learn them. though. I've been told hundreds of times that they're important, but no one has ever told me why or how to apply them. I've tried reading why they're important online but I don't think I recieved any answers there either.

I've also felt a small spurt of inspiration recently, new strings haha! It's only after playing brand new DR High Beams that I noticed how dead my old strings were, they were Stadium Elites and they didn't last too long at all, definitely wouldn't recommend them!

Also, a pretty old friend also asked me to play bass in a band he was trying to set up, he's written all the music and lyrics and we're also playing a more... grungier, for lack of a better word, version of The National Anthem by Radiohead, and Hey Bulldog which stays pretty true to the original, this should be pretty cool. His voice sounds REALLY Thom Yorke-ish.

I also came up with a couple of cool little things (Idk what else to call them aha.) while playing over a drum track as someone suggested above. I don't mean to toot my own horn but with the right drums it does sound SLIGHTLY Primus-esque but it's nowhere near as cool as anything Les Claypool has.

TalkShowHost wrote:Sorry, I've been pretty neglectant of this topic. Not had much time to reply.

I've learned a fair few scales, no one has ever told me why I should learn them. though. I've been told hundreds of times that they're important, but no one has ever told me why or how to apply them. I've tried reading why they're important online but I don't think I recieved any answers there either.

I've also felt a small spurt of inspiration recently, new strings haha! It's only after playing brand new DR High Beams that I noticed how dead my old strings were, they were Stadium Elites and they didn't last too long at all, definitely wouldn't recommend them!

Also, a pretty old friend also asked me to play bass in a band he was trying to set up, he's written all the music and lyrics and we're also playing a more... grungier, for lack of a better word, version of The National Anthem by Radiohead, and Hey Bulldog which stays pretty true to the original, this should be pretty cool. His voice sounds REALLY Thom Yorke-ish.

I also came up with a couple of cool little things (Idk what else to call them aha.) while playing over a drum track as someone suggested above. I don't mean to toot my own horn but with the right drums it does sound SLIGHTLY Primus-esque but it's nowhere near as cool as anything Les Claypool has.

If a music composition is a nice plate of pasta, then the scales are the pasta unboiled.

Just a few tips, (I consider myself noob too so I will try not to be prachy or bossy), you have to know why you put a note there and not there. I mean: all the good rock/punk basslines have fills. If you dont use notes that can be put together harmonically, you will only create an abomination and not a bassline. A scale is needed to know how to use the fretboard, how to combine and how to find out songs that aren't tabbed (this needs time and a trained ear if you dont have the talent to figure it out all alone).
Also, if you used the drum machine I proposed, try one exercise that helped me very much with the rythm:
Set your time signature in 4/4 (if it's not already set), and hit one note per beat. The same note. For example a C, on the 3rd fret of A string. When you will feel very satisfied with your playing, try to combine 2 notes. And so on.

It's the 3Ps for me: PLAY - PRACTICE - PATIENCE.

Also, why would you change your strings? What kind of bass do you play? I have the same strings since January 2010 and they are crystal bright till 2 hours ago I had my practice. Don't ever blame your bass or strings if something bothers you; most of the time is YOUR playing which scr****s the tone and harmony, neither strings nor the bass (if it's not a bass of $50).

Learn how to read your octaves on the fretboard.
For example!
There is a little hint to remember: If you hit 3rd fret or E string (which is a G) and then you move your pinky 2 frets and 2 strings down and right, the note that will be there is a G also.
Learn your strings seperately by playing the "alphabet". And then backwards. Shout out the notes. It helps very much.

Also, tuning is a hint how to remember some of the notes.

It's good to know the 6 strings tuning.

B – E – A – D – G – C

The 4 string is the E – A – D – G.

So now you have:
Every 5th fret, is the note of the next string open:

E-> A
A-> D
D-> G
G-> C

And then you have the 7th fret, which is the 4 first open strings of a 5 stringed (or above):
E->B
A->E
D->A
G->D

Easy no?

Now, all the 12th frets are the octaves complete harmonically.
Dman calls it the "baby bass" (i think it was Dman):
All the strings on the 12th frets are the same notes as open.
E------> E
A------> A
D------> D
G------> G

Now with those 3 hints, see how many notes you 've learned.


The bestest scale to learn when you are a "noob" (with the good definition noob) is Cmaj.

I play it like that:


G------------2-4-5-|
D------2-3-5-------|
A--3-5--------------|
E--------------------|

If you remember those notes in these positions, you are set for learning all the notes until the 7th fret.

Lastly but not least:
Do your exercises. Build your hands to play the bass. Your fingers are all usefull, try always to use the pinky as much as the other fingers.
Don't eat up your energy: Move your hand around only if you can't do otherwise.
Use both fingers and pick equally.
Play equally sitting down and standing up.


I hope all these will prove usefull for you as they were for me.

And remember:
You don't wake one day morning and play like Victor Wooten.

Play - Practice - Patience.

And the rewards will be huge. I PROMISE!

Hey, nice analogy with the pasta haha.

I hadn't changed my strings since April 9th 2010 and they were pretty horrible!

I know all the notes and I know how to find the 3rd and 5th (even though I don't know what that is for) and I think I have my fingerstyle technique down pretty well. I'm okay with slap and pop, but I'm awful with a pick. I've been practicing with one though a lot more recently so I should improve with that.

TalkShowHost wrote:Hey, nice analogy with the pasta haha.

I hadn't changed my strings since April 9th 2010 and they were pretty horrible!

I know all the notes and I know how to find the 3rd and 5th (even though I don't know what that is for) and I think I have my fingerstyle technique down pretty well. I'm okay with slap and pop, but I'm awful with a pick. I've been practicing with one though a lot more recently so I should improve with that.

Well.

Why are you questioning yourself all the time WHY and WHAT is that for?

It's notes. And you MUST learn them. I don't get the question.

Since you liked the pasta analogy, would you ever make a food to eat without the ingredients?

Thats the notes, your ingredients. So drop asking and learn them by heart.

Notes are important yes, but as Victor Wooten said "Don't let wrong notes ruin your groove." Or something like that.

MetalJacob wrote:Notes are important yes, but as Victor Wooten said "Don't let wrong notes ruin your groove." Or something like that.

Woody Allen said: Learn the regulations and then screw them up. Much better.

Indeed. I think those two quotes go hand-in-hand.

MetalJacob wrote:Indeed. I think those two quotes go hand-in-hand.

Yup can't agree more, mate

I always question 'why' and 'what is that for'. That's how I learn.

Why is finding the 3rd and 5th important? Because those are two of the notes in a scale the major and minor chords are composed of. 1-3-5. In C major, C-E-G.

G--------------
D------2--5--
A---3---------
E--------------

Those are just 3 places on the fretboard you can find a C, an E and a G. There are loads more, the 1st and 4th open strings being two more obvious ones. Studybass.com put the importance of chords brilliantly: "Guitarists say 'DOG', bassists spell D-O-G." Basslines based around the notes of the chords being played are usually the strongest ones. I could go into more detail but I'd probably confuse the both of us

'Course it probably matter if you play notes other than C, E and G while the guitarist's playing a C major chord. If it sounds good, who cares? But that's the thing - most people need a platform to step on in order to find out what sounds good. These little theory rules are as good a platform as any. Those quotes up there compliment this paragraph perfectly.

Just to add what Pippynip has already said. Yea learning chords is also very important and more importantly the notes within these chords. And where do we get chords from? Scales. This was covered in another thread, and I think I may have contributed something to it but I'll try outline it here easy enough to understand without going to deep into theory

Scale of C Major

CDEFGABC

For every single major scale the way to know whether a chord is major or minor is to remember this

Major minor minor Major Major minor diminished Major

Which means
CM
Dm
Em
FM
GM
Am
Bd
CM

Now forget about the diminished chord for a minute and we will concentrate on major and minor.

We want to make a C chord from the C Major Scale. So a chord is made up of its Root which is the 1st note and a 3rd and a 5th.

Start on C, this is our first note then count up three starting on C, this is our third note which is E, count up 5 starting on C and this is our fifth note which is G.

So the notes for our C chord are CEG. Without listening to the chord being played we already know that its a CMajor chord because we remember the Major minor.....etc.

Pick any other note from the scale. Take E for example. Follow the example above.

So our notes are EGB and we know that it is a E minor chord. This will make a lot more sense if you learn the C Major scale and then try to harmonize the scale yourself by using this process. It really isn't that hard and it will make more sense the more your practice it. It may prove useful if you try learn a simple three chord progression and pick the notes out of them to form a bassline. I have made some complicated sounding basslines just using the notes from a couple of chords and stringing them together using octaves, its a process I like to call connecting the dots. As you are trying to bounce around notes within a chord and find your way into the next chord. Or maybe just pick one chord and see where you can find the Root, 3rd and 5th and try make a bassline out of one chord. Dont be afraid to mix them up, invert the notes within the chord, maybe play the 3rd first and the root last.The key is to experiment.

That's an excellent way of making chords!

How did I missed that previous post?

Thanks Pastichio at least you helped *me* a lot...!

Damn makes so much sense.

Nocturnal_Pulse wrote:That's an excellent of making chords!

How did I missed that previous post?

Thanks Pastichio at least you helped *me* a lot...!

Damn makes so much sense.

No worries mate glad I could help.

Just to add again to my other post. A real easy way to come up with a chord progression is to take the 3rd note of the first chord and use this as the second chord in your chord progression.

Example

CMajor = CEG
Eminor = EGB
GMajor = GBD

So your chord progression would be CMajor Eminor and GMajor.

Now if you were to look at these chords and take apart the notes. You could hold down the C note while the first chord is being played and when the second chord is about to come in you could start playing the E or G and keep playing them when the second chord comes in and so on. It can be real fun to try find notes that are common within a chord progression and keep emphasizing these notes rather than the root note of each chord. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, they key again is to experiment. Things like this do show the power of the bassist. For example, if your guitarist is playing power chords which are Root 5th and Octave and the quality of the chord is not defined, i.e the chords are technically not major or minor you get to decide the quality of the chords by adding in the third note of the chord.

Also when making basslines I don't always just stick to the notes in the chord. Sometimes I... I don't really know the best way to explain it, but I kinda move to the notes in the chord via other notes. It's a bit like in one of the riffs in Stir It Up by Bob Marley & The Wailers...

G----------------
D----------------
A----------4-----
E---5--77----5----

Moving to C# from A via B.

What's the pattern for minor scales and are there other patterns for the other modes? I'm guessing there are.

Pippynip wrote:Also when making basslines I don't always just stick to the notes in the chord. Sometimes I... I don't really know the best way to explain it, but I kinda move to the notes in the chord via other notes. It's a bit like in one of the riffs in Stir It Up by Bob Marley & The Wailers...

G----------------
D----------------
A----------4-----
E---5--77----5----

Moving to C# from A via B.

What's the pattern for minor scales and are there other patterns for the other modes? I'm guessing there are.

It's called a passing tone. Studybass has a good writeup of that:
http://www.studybass.com/lessons/common-bass-patterns/chromatic-approach-notes/

On chords, however, I think it's best if you know the patterns on the fretboard, so you can actually play them. There is a fixed pattern for major, minor, dimished and all types of chords. For instance, a major chord will always have the pattern (anywhere on the fretboard):

|---|---|---|---|1st|
|---|3rd|---|---|5th|
|---|---|1st|---|---|

Likewise, the pattern for a minor chord is:

|---|---|---|---|1st|
|3rd|---|---|---|5th|
|---|---|1st|---|---|


I don't feel like writing out all chord patterns I know (I mean, I know what a EbMaj7b5 chord is), but here are a few more:
A sus2 chord: (Like Csus2=C D G)

|---|---|---|---|---|1st|
|2nd|---|---|---|---|5th|
|---|---|---|1st|---|2nd|

A sus4 chord (like Csus4=C F G):

|---|---|---|---|---|1st|
|---|---|---|4th|---|5th|
|---|---|---|1st|---|---|

A dominant seventh (like C7=C E G Bb):

|---|---|---|7th|---|1st|
|---|---|3rd|---|---|5th|
|---|7th|---|1st|---|---|

A major seventh (Like CMaj7=C E G B)

|---|---|---|---|7th|1st|
|---|---|3rd|---|---|5th|
|---|---|7th|1st|---|---|

A minor dominant seventh (Like Cm7=C Eb G Bb):

|---|---|---|7th|---|1st|
|---|3rd|---|---|---|5th|
|---|---|---|1st|---|---|

A minor major seventh (like CmMaj7=C Eb G B):

|---|---|---|---|7th|1st|
|---|3rd|---|---|---|5th|
|---|---|7th|1st|---|---|


Those are the most important chords, I think. I haven't encountered much else in popular music beyond this (Jazz is a whole other thing altogether ) and I think this should suffice. Just know where to find your notes on the fretboard, so if a F#mMaj7 chord is asked, you can just look for the F# on the fretboard (hint: it's the second fret on the E) and play the pattern, instead of having to consider what notes the minor scale of F# consists of, then picking the right ones, then finding them on the fretboard.
Even Victor Wooten plays with patterns.

Pippynip wrote:Also when making basslines I don't always just stick to the notes in the chord. Sometimes I... I don't really know the best way to explain it, but I kinda move to the notes in the chord via other notes. It's a bit like in one of the riffs in Stir It Up by Bob Marley & The Wailers...

G----------------
D----------------
A----------4-----
E---5--77----5----

Moving to C# from A via B.

What's the pattern for minor scales and are there other patterns for the other modes? I'm guessing there are.

Of course there are many way to form basslines without sticking to the notes within chords. But to begin with I think sticking to the chord notes when you are not to sure what to do is a good way to start. I sometimes use chromatic runs between the notes within a chord and it can really give a nice flow to a bassline, or sometimes I'll use scale modes. It all really depends on what I am trying to do. But for someone just getting into this type of thing, keep it simple, move at your own pace and take your time eventually you will get better and more creative the more comfortable you get with your playing